And true, while voting is sort of activism… I’d encourage people to get further involved than just casting their vote. Even if it is just volunteering to sign people up TO vote. I think for it to be activism, it has to be something beyond your “legal duty” to vote.

I don’t think there’s enough of the youth jumping in while others fade back and I think that’s one problem we see here in town. There’s a gap between those passionately involved and those who will join but not lead.

And yes, it is my website. I pay the bills. I make the decisions. If you want to call the shots, then by all means, start your own website. This website is not a News source. I do not claim it is.

Is it still FOR, BY or ABOUT the community? Still seems fairly focused in my opinion. I suspect you’re just annoyed that it doesn’t say “For, By & About those who refuse to get involved beyond the keyboard”.

Will you please get over yourself for 5 minutes! That Facebook page if a hot mess and a damn joke. I have seen some of the things that people post in there ( I do not have to enter or like it to do so) and most of it is just one-sided garbage! Heaven forbid our media tell BOTH sides of the story. The name of that groups should be changed to “Bigots pointing Fingers at Bigots.” If anyone goes into it and dares to show both sides of this argument they are treated like they are the second coming of Satan, and to make things more fun, the moderator goes through and deletes all of them…because…you know heaven forbid he lose any people that might see the logic in both side on his/her precious Facebook page.

This boycott isn’t doing a damn thing to move things forward for the GLBT community. We will most likely be dealing with the consequences from you morons for years to come. Let me explain it for you more clearly

Possible Backlash 1: Target is using its right that the US Supreme Court gave them last year. Good for them. Now the GLBT community is acting out and publicly disrespecting the high courts decision that companies can donate to whomever they want. Not so SMART to disrespect the highest court in the nation on its decision-making processes when it will most likely be hearing our case for gay marriage in a couple of year (Prop 8 overtured). So yes, go ahead and tick them off, why would we want them on our side???

Possible backlash 2: All of this media attention will most likely do nothing but get the attention of ultra conservative voters. Remember the election of 2004 when gay marriage was pretty much the largest issue that got GW back into the presidency??? So yes Bill, let’s make a huge media mess to get those conservative voters back out there again in a few month and take over both houses of Congress. TWO WORDS: STALLED PROCESS!

How about if you, and your 60K losers get off your asses and do something positive. I don’t know….for example, instead of wasting your time standing outside of a Target store with signs screaming boycott and making a scene, you donate your time to your local election board and make sure the guest going into these stores is registered to vote, and actually PLAN ON VOTING!

And Tony — First thank you for FINALLY posting something that talked about both sides of the story. And second, MN Forward, along with Target, owns no one an apology. They are donating to to three Democrats as well, all in support of equal right for the GLBT community. If these people would take 5 minutes outside of whining on the Facebook and simply go to MN FORWARD dot COM, click on the candidates, look up their voting records, they would know all this already.

But I guess sitting on your A$$es at home whining on the Facebook is much less work than doing either of the alternatives I suggested — Getting people registered to vote and getting all of the facts.

So yes, please “Google that for me.” But without the ‘tude. I think I earned my stripes.

I’ll leave you two to “discuss.” I think it’s time to change my status from “Gay” to “Confirmed Bachelor.” There’s less drama.

“I’m not going to fault their CEO for not wanting to buy “protection” against a protest by a community out for money… (And the fact that an apology isn’t enough proves that.)”

or not:

“No apology from Target is necessary.”

And, I wondered why you never covered the story, and the subsequent donations that have come to light are also part of the story. You find it convenient to ignore them:
“(And the topic in question is about THIS donation, not Prop 8 or anything else. Your original comment to me was specific about THIS donation so I’m following through on that restriction.)” Skip over the parts that show Target is consistently undermining us. And proudly crow about how much more money you will continue to spend there.

Interesting that you think I rambled. I guess putting up points to consider and counter your apathetic view of the story is “rambling” to you.

You know, I realize that the visible protesters look better in pictures, but you just completely ignore the fact that there are other ways to get things done without sticking your face in front of a camera. I’m just wondering…is that the only way to get a story covered? Pretty pictures?

And I didn’t ask to be a reporter. I kept checking to see if you would mention it, say something. Anything. But not a peep until I mentioned the silence on Facebook. Then you decide it’s time to say something. How silly of me to think that mentioning how a company that appeared to support us gave a rather sizable donation to a candidate that hates us would warrant mention to the community that the candidate hates. Or just the irony of such a Gay friendly company giving to an anti-Gay candidate.

But it’s your site:

“This is mine to do as I please, including to NOT post “silly furor.”

And yours alone:

“By, For & About the St. Louis LGBT Community”

I simply restated my opinion. Target didn’t do anything wrong. MN Forward did. No apology from Target is necessary. MN Forward should apologize and the LGBT community should make sure THAT happens. But the people pushing the story, like yourself, want MORE than an apology from Target. Logic be damned. (And the topic in question is about THIS donation, not Prop 8 or anything else. Your original comment to me was specific about THIS donation so I’m following through on that restriction.)

I didn’t post details of the story because I thought it was silly. I said so and I still say so. And frankly, I don’t post crap that I think is utterly incorrect and wrong. I’m not FOX.

The website is here to help out the community but you are right, there is a lot of apathy in this town. A lot of folks who want OTHER people to champion THEIR causes. That’s why I offered to let you post on it. To let you, someone passionate about this issue, take charge and lead. But instead you posted on Facebook and taunted me and my site. (“A local website that ‘serves’ the Gay ‘community’ doesn’t have time to post anything about it…beauty pageants and bar news seems so much more important.”) So I felt I had to post my opinion and when I did, you wrote a rambling dissertation blasting me for what was and still is my opinion.

If your concern is that I’m not covering every single aspect of the community and in this case not championing your cause, be aware that I tend to work with people who are active in the community. The ones who are out there with the protest signs. The ones who march in the parades. The ones who run community centers and organizations. The ones who go to Jeff City or Iowa every month to fight for our rights. The ones who do the grunt work so everyone else can have it easy. You and me included.

For those people, I’m grateful and I do my best to make their lives easier. And they are why the website is here.

I corrected the dollar amount to the actual amounts given by Target and Best Buy, you’re welcome.

I elaborated on Target’s “apology”, which only included employees, but you still seem to think it was directed at everyone. It wasn’t. Target did not apologize to anyone outside of Target, so stop saying they apologized to everyone. THEY DID NOT.

I asked what viable alternative to a boycott you would recommend, and there’s no alternative suggestions. i guess you’re rather just ignore and forget it.

No mention of the money the execs at Target gave to the Prop 8 campaign.

Just because I’m a little more careful, and research a little more intensely who I give to, doesn’t mean I don’t support worthwhile causes. But, because I don’t give to the same causes you do, I can’t have an opinion, and challenge those who disagree.

Sad when it’s so blatantly obvious that a company does not care about us, even though they have given that appearance for so long, that folks cannot agree, because the “cheap chic” means more than using our own money against us.

No mention of how so many people helped put local businesses out of commission by ordering tons of stuff online, spending money in other parts of the country or the world. But I get chastised for not spending money in a store that is quickly showing it’s true colors.

And I wanted you to speak up and tell folks what you thought of the whole incident. I wondered why did you not mention it, even as more outlets were covering it. Why did the site who is supposed to look out for the “community” not say anything?

And now you told us. So now, we know.

You don’t support HRC. You don’t support Pridefest. And I can say you don’t support this website (monetarily speaking).

Yet you are going to stand there and lecture me about the importance of standing up for the community?

March with your company in the next Pride parade. Attend a Prop 8 Protest. Have your picture taken as part of the NoH8 project. At that point, then lecture me on supporting the LGBT Community.

Furthermore, this community, by your own admission of disliking Pridefest, has a lot of differing opinions. We learn to still support similar causes and still work together. Polarization of the community is pointless and tends to dissolve any real discussions. (Like we are seeing here.)

As for Target, they didn’t do anything wrong. They donated to a company. THAT company is the one who did things wrong. I’m not going to fault their CEO for not wanting to buy “protection” against a protest by a community out for money… (And the fact that an apology isn’t enough proves that.)

And for the record, after you pointed out I didn’t have any news on Target on the website, I offered to give you the ability to post on here so you could keep the community informed. Instead you started posting on Facebook with veiled references about my not supporting the community. I offered to give you the ability to speak your mind, but by your reply, I guess I’m not allowed to speak mine. So much for equality.

OK, I agree, if someone is going to suggest a boycott, it would be helpful to suggest alternatives. Now let me Google that for you….AH! So far, it’s still OK to shop at Sears, Kmart and Costco. I hope that helps with finding alternatives, but that may change tomorrow.

And, of course Tony is free to do as he wishes with his website, after all, it is his. He writes it, maintains it, monitors it, and it is all done for….wait, what’s that?

“By, For & About the St. Louis LGBT Community”

Oh, sorry…I missed that. I just saw this at first:
“This is mine to do as I please, including to NOT post “silly furor”.”

Oh, well…what’s a little contradiction here and there?

But lets forgive Target, it was just a little mistake.

“Target came out and apologized.”

I find it interesting that when Target Corporation’s CEO apologized for making a donation to a Political Action Committee that ended up supporting an anti-gay Republican gubernatorial candidate’s campaign, he didn’t apologize to everyone.

Gregg Steinhafel wrote employees to say the discount retailer was “genuinely sorry” over the $150,000 contribution made by Target to MN Forward. He said that future donations would undergo a review process . However, he never apologized to the general public…you know, the one’s who spend money in their stores. Sadly, that apology was leaked from within Target. The general public, made up of consumers like us, is so far S.O.L.

MN Forward, which reportedly supports candidates on both sides of the aisle, used the money on TV ads for Republican Tom Emmer, an outspoken conservative opposed to same-sex marriage and other gay-rights initiatives.

Rachel Maddow covered it when this began:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXnZorTLGiY

And Keith Olbermann:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgkCr8mzc4U&p=4DFCDC3015B44ED9&playnext=1&index=32

The Mayor of West Hollywood , CA wrote a letter of protest, sent the same morning as the apology, which said, in part, “I seriously doubt that Target would support a candidate for public office who was pro business but advocated racial segregation…” yet it has demonstrated a willingness to donate to an anti-gay candidate.

In his internal “apology”, Target’s CEO wrote:”While I firmly believe that a business climate conducive to growth is critical to our future, I realize our decision affected many of you in a way I did not anticipate, and for that I am genuinely sorry.”

He added, “The diversity of our team is an important aspect of our unique culture and our success as a company, and we did not mean to disappoint you, our team or our valued guests.”

Oh, well….the CEO “did not mean to disappoint” us.

The email I got today from HRC is titled “A punch in the gut from Target”
And contains this interesting notice:
“Target just told us that they won’t be taking ANY corrective action to repair the harm they’ve caused.”

With some in the Gay community, it appears that because Target has a long history of pro-LGBT and inclusive policies, and due to heavy donations to local and nationwide gay groups (Target is a major funder of the Twin Cities Gay Pride Festival, for example), Target faced little real danger from an economic boycott.

I think what was written on About.com sums it up pretty good:

“In the land of the free and the home of the opinionated, businesses are allowed to have a point of view and to assert that point of view with their products, services, and public policies – even if that means alienating potential customers. American Apparel and Abercrombie & Fitch are great examples of companies that openly express a point of view that many consumers find offensive. But these two retailers stay true to their offensive identity without apology. Whether consumers “like” American Apparel and Abercrombie or not, at least it’s clear what these two companies value (and what/who they devalue).
Target, on the other hand, is fueling the wildfire of consumer disapproval by seemingly pretending to be something that it is not. The boycotters would probably have been pacified fairly quickly if Target had taken some kind of definitive and sincere action immediately. Instead, the best response that consumers have gotten so far is an e-mail sent by CEO Gregg Steinhafel to his employees which said, “Let me be very clear. …Target’s support of the LGBT community is unwavering, and inclusiveness remains a core value of our company.”
Target wants the public to believe that it is unbiased towards both the gay community and political parties. The political contribution evidence, however, is pointing consumers to a different conclusion. I think it’s going to take more than an internal employee communication leaked to the press to get this wildfire of customer dissatisfaction under control for Target.”

You ask why boycott? Because it appears that all Target cares about is the pocketbook, of course. What would you rather we do, send emails that say “Naughty, naughty?”

But it’s one thing to say “Well, I can’t support the boycott”, but it would be helpful if a viable alternative to boycotting were offered in addition to the reasons as to why you will not support a boycott. I’d love to hear of something else that would be effective.Target can choose to support whoever they wish but I can choose who to support with my retail dollars and I choose to not knowingly give my money to stores that support bigots. The Supreme Court opened a real can of worms here and corporations will learn they will be held accountable.

And, by the way…contrary to what you said I have NEVER given money to the HRC. I DO research organizations as thoroughly as possible to try and avoid giving to groups who work against me.

Have you also heard about Target’s gift of approx $3,300 to fund the Prop 8 campaign? So much for their “unwavering support”.

So fear is keeping you from boycotting? Fear of employees losing their jobs. Well, with the disclosure laws showing what the Target execs REALLY think of us, that may happen regardless, especially if policies change. But remember, dollars spent at businesses dictate where jobs will be needed. The thought that not spending money at Target will eliminate jobs is a real possibility, but shifting your spending habits will really just lead to a shift in jobs required, less at some business and more at others.

Think back a few years…lots of people I know were spending thousands and thousands of dollars ordering from internet sites, but no one seemed to care if that was taking money away from local merchants, and eliminating jobs in their local communities. That was OK….no big deal, really.

But now when we are advocating a spending shift away from a retailer who’s two-faced policies are being exposed, we are told it is silly. I realize Pride Fest may suffer without two-faced Target’s donations, but what is Pride Fest, really? Just a place to see and be seen, to gouge the community with outrageously inflated prices because we are a captive audience. Just another excuse to party. And I see that the same general apathy still radiates through the community after all this time.

I know, reality is sometimes difficult to deal with, but since the executives at Target are showing their true feelings, perhaps it’s time to wake up and swallow the bitter red pill. Target is playing us for fools.

1) Changed the $150K to $100K. ($150K is the Target and Best Buy donations combined. $100K was Target’s portion.)
2) Fixed some wording about “violating a crime” to “committing a crime”. (I blame studying for my exams for why “violation” was in my mind.)

But again, if someone can give a logical argument of why poor Target workers should lose their jobs because corporate made a bad PR move, I’d love to hear it. I personally cannot send someone to the unemployment line who had nothing to do with it, regardless of the single act I dislike.

If you don’t like Target’s actions, great, don’t shop there. But don’t push me to support your cause automatically. And do not question my support of the LGBT community if I don’t feel the need to hurt helpless employees who are barely getting by on minimum wage as it is. Unemployment sucks. Been there, done that.

Punishing Target? No. Punishing low income workers is all it’ll do.

And lastly, the HRC is good. I’m not slamming the HRC. I think they are getting pulled into it like everyone else is (who would turn down a free donation?) but I think it is overlooked. I just used them as an example of a political organization making decisions we probably don’t like, because they have a longer vision of their future than the current election cycle. Imagine that.

I’m really sick of these knee-jerk reactions that really are no worse than, say, the negative reactions to the “Ground Zero Mosque.” Don’t just react, do the research first.

Thanks.

If you have suggestions, just let me know.

Just wanted to drop a line and say thanks for running such a great website! I’m moving to St. Louis this week and this has greatly helped me with getting a feel for the gay community in STL. Keep it up!

Coby

So, if you’d like to post updates, let me know and I can give you access to post those stories.

I did not post on them as I personally find the uproar silly. Every election companies support candidates I dislike. The only reason this is different is because the candidate is a whackjob that no one likes. And I think a lot of those upset are saying they’ll protest online but wouldn’t in real life.

But I’ll support someone else with a passion in the topic to bring the community up to date.

Media covering media is self defeating. It’s a Fox News tactic.

Furthermore, Target has backed down and apologized. Their stock is in the toilet. And frankly, where else are we to shop. Walmart’s treatment of GLBT staff and staff in general is far worse. Kmart doesn’t really exist here in St. Louis anymore. So there’s not a lot of other decent options. And I suspect that’s one of the reasons why Facebook is so alight with this. People love Target and don’t like that it gave to something they didn’t like.

But seriously, start up a group with picketing signs and I’ll gladly post the story on the site. I’ll even add pictures.

So I’d love to know specifically what wasn’t working on any of those pages. I know the Map page is a little larger than the rest, but it appeared to load in about 10 seconds. So any details are appreciated. (And ignore the IE6 part as I see you have IE8.)

Internet Explorer 6 is known to have problems with the website, sadly, that won’t get fixed as it just doesn’t support many of the functions. IE 7 and IE 8 are out as are Firefox and Chrome, all of which should be working properly. But knowing specifically what is not working right would be helpful.

Thanks.